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Kentucky vs. Vanderbilt: Game Thread

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  • Originally posted by KevinHall View Post
    I'm trying to figure out what National Player of the War is?

    I would take Young as long he could fit into the team scheme of things. I'm just not so sure Cal would ever allow anyone to shoot as much as Young does?
    He probably wouldn't, which is probably why he went to Oklahoma.

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    • Originally posted by KevinHall View Post
      I'm trying to figure out what National Player of the War is?

      I would take Young as long he could fit into the team scheme of things. I'm just not so sure Cal would ever allow anyone to shoot as much as Young does?
      Judging from Cal's comments earlier in the year I think we can answer that question with a resounding no.

      "There's a kid that (his) father wanted him to shoot every ball," Calipari said. "I said, 'we just don't do that here.' He's gone to a school and he had 40 last night.”

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      • Originally posted by teamchemistry15 View Post

        The thing is though he's been effecient. If you're hitting better than 50% from three, yeah, keep jacking them up. He hit ten. No one complained when Jodie Meeks kept shooting them against Tennessee or Arkansas his junior year. Oklahoma wasn't going to be in the top 25 without him. They are top ten with him. We don't have a game changer like that. His numbers have been flat out silly this year. Including his 20+/20+ game. The kid is on the Beasley, Wall, Davis, Durant level. I'm not knocking any of our guys or complaining about Cal not getting him, just talking about college basketball and admiring the numbers he's putting up.
        Definitely in today's game he was very efficient. But the previous 4 games were much less so. 36% over those games. But yet he still averaged 30 a game because of volume of shots.

        I'm not arguing that he is not talented. Obviously he is. And yes he has done wonders for Oklahoma. But I am also not ready to put him into the level of the players you named. Beasley and Durant did it with roughly 17 shots a game and of course Wall and Davis can't be measured by shot attempts. Today made 7 games of 22+ shot attempts for Young
        Last edited by catfaninin; 01-13-2018, 10:51 PM.

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        • Originally posted by catfaninin View Post

          Judging from Cal's comments earlier in the year I think we can answer that question with a resounding no.

          "There's a kid that (his) father wanted him to shoot every ball," Calipari said. "I said, 'we just don't do that here.' He's gone to a school and he had 40 last night.”
          You missed Cal's recent comments about Young.

          Those first comments were sour grapes and total BS. Cal should've never gone there. Later in the week when Young scored 45 or so he reversed himself.

          Young is the Naismith winner right now and only Bagley is close.

          You put him on Kentucky's team right now and we're a machine. If you believe that Cal wouldn't let that guy have the leash to shoot whenever he wanted you're mistaken. That makes no sense.

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          • If he were on a more talented team and took 22 shots a game he be what we used to call "a gun." That would be too much shooting. But he's not a gun--he leads the nation in assists.

            I think OU has been smart in putting the ball in his hands on every possession and he has done a great job of shooting when he has the shot and dishing when someone else is open. To have a kid of his abilities and not that much around him and to dial him back would be poor coaching. Or at least holding him back trying to get more years out if him like some coaches we've seen.

            On our team you'd think at least Quade, SGA and Knox would still get up some shots which would mean Young would shoot at least some less. Maybe as a great lead guard he'd even be getting more out of Richards (or maybe not). But he's not been shooting too much for the team he is on.

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            • Quade wouldn't be on the team. Quade was the guy they went to when it was clear Young was going to wait.

              A tandem of Young and SGA would be killer. In my mind we'd be #1 in America and undefeated.

              The thing about Young being on this team is that this team needs somebody to step up offensively. One of its problems is that when we need a basket we've got guys standing around looking at each other.

              On the superteam with Towns and those guys? Yeah, Trae Young wouldn't be jacking up as many shots. Obviously. But this Kentucky team doesn't have much in terms of offensive playmakers. Young would be absolutely perfect for this team.

              BUT the trade-off would be that you'd lose him. We aren't going to lose Quade, and I really like Quade in the future. Seems like a guy to me who could grow into a star.

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              • Originally posted by Will Lavender View Post

                You missed Cal's recent comments about Young.

                Those first comments were sour grapes and total BS. Cal should've never gone there. Later in the week when Young scored 45 or so he reversed himself.

                Young is the Naismith winner right now and only Bagley is close.

                You put him on Kentucky's team right now and we're a machine. If you believe that Cal wouldn't let that guy have the leash to shoot whenever he wanted you're mistaken. That makes no sense.
                I just can't imagine Cal giving anyone free reign to shoot from anywhere or at anytime. It goes against every thing that he is. All the things we have heard. How everyone sacrifices for the greater good. How Anthony Davis took the 5th most shots on the team.

                And if he did ever let someone play like Young it could ruin recruiting. How many 5 star players are going to sign on to watch someone else shoot the ball the entire game?

                Just some numbers to ponder. Young since the start of conference play:
                9-23 =39%
                7-17= 41%
                8-22= 36%
                7-23= 30%
                15-27= 56%

                Yes, he has averaged 30 over those games. Pick another top player, Bagley, Bridges, Ayton whomever you like and imagine their numbers with that kind of shot volume.

                But you are right in that he will likely win the Naismith as he will continue to jack up enough shots to put up crazy point totals.

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                • Originally posted by Catsrock View Post
                  If he were on a more talented team and took 22 shots a game he be what we used to call "a gun." That would be too much shooting. But he's not a gun--he leads the nation in assists.

                  I think OU has been smart in putting the ball in his hands on every possession and he has done a great job of shooting when he has the shot and dishing when someone else is open. To have a kid of his abilities and not that much around him and to dial him back would be poor coaching. Or at least holding him back trying to get more years out if him like some coaches we've seen.

                  On our team you'd think at least Quade, SGA and Knox would still get up some shots which would mean Young would shoot at least some less. Maybe as a great lead guard he'd even be getting more out of Richards (or maybe not). But he's not been shooting too much for the team he is on.
                  I have watched OU quite a few times. A lot of his assists are a product of taking so many shots. Once everyone in the building , defense included expects a shot other players are left for wide open layups. But to his credit Young does in those cases give it up for the easy shot.

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                  • Originally posted by catfaninin View Post

                    I just can't imagine Cal giving anyone free reign to shoot from anywhere or at anytime.
                    You don't remember Brandon Knight jacking it up at will? Jamal Murray? Malik Monk?

                    Catfaninin I like you buddy, but your arguments about Young are flat-out terrible, lol. The guy is a one-in-a-million superstar. He's an Anthony Davis type.

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                    • Originally posted by Will Lavender View Post

                      You don't remember Brandon Knight jacking it up at will? Jamal Murray? Malik Monk?

                      Catfaninin I like you buddy, but your arguments about Young are flat-out terrible, lol. The guy is a one-in-a-million superstar. He's an Anthony Davis type.
                      Look at the numbers. They don't compare. And I don't recall it being commonplace for them to bring the ball up and jack it up from 30 feet before a pass was ever made. Comparing Trae Young to Anthony Davis is insane. Not even in the same stratosphere.

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                      • Originally posted by catfaninin View Post

                        Look at the numbers. They don't compare. And I don't recall it being commonplace for them to bring the ball up and jack it up from 30 feet before a pass was ever made.
                        Once again. The fact that the man leads the nation in assists and shoots it at such a high percentage from three makes this a really flawed argument.

                        Were he a selfish ball hog type then yes, his shot selection would hurt you. But this is a guy who's at 40% from behind the three-point line and averaging 10 assists per.

                        Trae Young has the exact same number of assists right now that Brandon Knight did on the entire season.

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                        • Originally posted by Will Lavender View Post

                          Once again. The fact that the man leads the nation in assists and shoots it at such a high percentage from three makes this a really flawed argument.

                          Were he a selfish ball hog type then yes, his shot selection would hurt you. But this is a guy who's at 40% from behind the three-point line and averaging 10 assists per.

                          Trae Young has the exact same number of assists right now that Brandon Knight did on the entire season.
                          Monk, Murray and Knight had 11 games of 20+ attempts. Combined. For a full season. Young has 7 by himself in roughly half a season.

                          And the 3 point %'s are very similar. Knight was only 37. Monk and Murray 39 & 41.

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                          • Young has seven by himself...on a top five team. There's a difference between a guy who jacks up shots and gets you beat and a guy who does it to help you win.

                            And not sure what the point is about their shooting percentage. Monk, Murray, and Knight were all very good outside shooters. So is Trae Young.

                            Anything around 40% in the college game is great. Both our point guards are over 40%, but their number of makes is lacking between them. They have 27 combined; Young has 68.

                            Imagining that guy playing with SGA, on this team, is wild to think about. He'd be absolutely perfect for this particular group. Where Young wouldn't be great might be on a team where he'd have to share shots; were he on last year's team with Monk then that would be problematic. But if you put him on this team we would take off. He's what we need.

                            I also think we would be #1 and undefeated with Bagley and probably Wendell Carter, too. We're at least one superstar away. You'll notice when things start to break down for Kentucky they're desperately looking for somebody to get them a basket. You put a Bagley type on this team and that kind of thing doesn't happen.

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                            • So with this statement, "Monk, Murray, and Knight were all very good outside shooters. So is Trae Young." you make the same point as what I am. What was missing in the case of the 3 UK guys was shot attempts. Those games when the shot attempts were there? Monk, Murray and Knight averaged 28.5 a game. But they didn't get those shot attempts on a nightly basis. Which has been my point all along. There are plenty of good players if given the same number of shots would put up some ridiculous numbers.

                              Granted Young has an advantage in assists to the tune of 6-7 per game. So obviously that makes the season he is having better than any of the UK guys. But putting him in conversations with the likes of Davis and Durant is just crazy.

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                              • I think there are guys who could get their averages up to 30+ a game if they were given the green light all the time.

                                Luke Kennard is a guy who comes immediately to mind.

                                But most of those players wouldn't have the makes Young does with those shot attempts. And they surely wouldn't be the passers Young is. The reason Young is such a great passer isn't because of his shots--it's because he's blindingly fast. That's the thing I think many people missed about him coming out of high school. He has shocking quickness that you don't see from guys who are great shooters.

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                                Kentucky vs. Vanderbilt: Game Thread

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