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James Wiseman Ruled Ineligible

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Jload View Post
    Courage, this isn’t about courage. It’s about a guy CHEATING. Hardaway broke the rules that everyone else is expected to abide by, and he didn’t do it for the kid, he did it to promote his own self interest.
    I just think this is a little different than the Self and Miller and Wade situations.

    Penny coached him so he had a relationship already. Not sure he needed to cheat.

    And it's not like he was putting bids down for a player. This could be seen as helping somebody out, which is extremely common for AAU coaches and their players. It's one of the reasons these kids always have such profound relationship with their AAU coaches.

    Just seems like the NCAA shoots itself in the foot a lot. Here's one of their premier players and they rule him ineligible over 12 thousand bucks. That seems absurd to me.

    And more than that, they're hellaciously inconsistent. Remember when Zion Williamson was ruled ineligible for his house? Or when Corey Maggette was ruled ineligible? Of course you don't. It just seems like the NCAA picks and chooses when and whom to punish, and the only way you break that system is to fight it.

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    • #47
      ^ Good points you are making.

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      • #48
        ^^ Right on Will! If this situation happened at Duke and Kentucky, does anybody have any idea how differently the NCAA would handle it?
        John 3:3

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        • #49
          Originally posted by KCKUKFan View Post

          Again, this isn't the point.

          Penny could give James Wiseman ten millions bucks, and I wouldn't care. However, there are rules established by the governing body, and if schools are just going to thumb their noses at said body and do whatever they want, then I'd say that sets a fairly bad precedent. We're already seeing it from schools like LSU, Arizona, Kansas, North Carolina... I'm all for the destruction of the NCAA, but I'm not sure if this is the way to go about it.
          Then what's the way to go about it?

          If the NCAA isn't going to enforce the rules evenly and consistently then they aren't rules. It's just a clubby bunch of executives deciding who they like most. Wiseman apparently didn't know his family had accepted the money.

          Everyone shouting about 'there are rules!' sounds a little like Walter Sobchak in The Big Lebowski ("Smoky, this is not nam, this is bowling, there are rules!"). We're so far beyond rules that it's stupid to scream about them now and continue thumbing our noses until this whole stupid empire crashes to the ground and we can get something that's equitable for everyone and stops punishing poor kids for trying to their share of the dollars.
          When he was a kid Lord, he never imagined all the ways that the city could bring a country boy down.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Dwight Schrute View Post

            Then what's the way to go about it?

            If the NCAA isn't going to enforce the rules evenly and consistently then they aren't rules. It's just a clubby bunch of executives deciding who they like most. Wiseman apparently didn't know his family had accepted the money.

            Everyone shouting about 'there are rules!' sounds a little like Walter Sobchak in The Big Lebowski ("Smoky, this is not nam, this is bowling, there are rules!"). We're so far beyond rules that it's stupid to scream about them now and continue thumbing our noses until this whole stupid empire crashes to the ground and we can get something that's equitable for everyone and stops punishing poor kids for trying to their share of the dollars.
            I don't have an answer, unfortunately. You're right. But if Penny plays Wiseman this year and if the NCAA does nothing, then I guess every team will start doing whatever they want, whenever they want. We'll see what happens (answer: nothing good).

            We could only wish that the NCAA had the same set of (misguided) principles and unconditional loyalty that Walter Sobchak possessed.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Will Lavender View Post


              Penny coached him so he had a relationship already. Not sure he needed to cheat.
              I think you're giving Penny too much credit, Will.

              Penny knows just as well as Cal did that he won't win in Memphis unless he plays funky with the rules. Cal worked in the grey zone there constantly, whether we like to admit it now or not, and Penny will have to do the same if he wants to continue to get the players that he seems to be getting.

              He was connected in the AAU circles, which is helping him land these kids now, but what about in five years when he's been out of that world? What's gonna pull the kids to Memphis then? The school's name brand? Penny's name brand? Do kids today even know that Lil' Penny was a thing at one time?

              His response to the NCAA in this instance shows that he doesn't really care about the rules one way or the other.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by KCKUKFan View Post

                I don't have an answer, unfortunately. You're right. But if Penny plays Wiseman this year and if the NCAA does nothing, then I guess every team will start doing whatever they want, whenever they want. We'll see what happens (answer: nothing good).

                We could only wish that the NCAA had the same set of (misguided) principles and unconditional loyalty that Walter Sobchak possessed.
                I don't like the world we live in now either. But currently, it's legal for the schools to use the athletes likenesses, it's legal for Nike and the NCAA to use them, it's legal for apparel companies with zero connection to the universities or the kids to make shirts directly playing off a kid's likeness. Yet the kid gets nothing.

                Until stuff like that gets remedied, I'm not interested in hearing about how there are rules.
                When he was a kid Lord, he never imagined all the ways that the city could bring a country boy down.

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                • #53
                  Wills point about the inconsistency of thE NCAA is for me the driving point. I don't think anyone minds if there are rules that are enforced across the board. You learn where those are. The variance of rules and more importantly interpretation and enforcement of those rules is maddening.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by KCKUKFan View Post

                    I think you're giving Penny too much credit, Will.
                    Maybe.

                    But I don't think a kid's college career should be decided on a maybe.

                    As much as the inconsistency there's the issue here that the NCAA cleared Wiseman...then they came back and ruled him ineligible.

                    That's D. Rose all over again.

                    I have to think somebody called in a tip to the NCAA to cause the sudden reversal, but who knows for sure? What I do know is that he should play right now. Let them pay that money back, cite the fact that Wiseman didn't know about the moving money, cite also the fact that when Penny Hardaway became a booster at Memphis James Wiseman was in kindergarten, and let him get on with his season.
                    Last edited by Will Lavender; 11-11-2019, 02:14 PM.

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                    • #55
                      Penny is smart and knew the Memphis coaching job would be available soon. Bottom line Wiseman didn’t need Penny but Penny needed Wiseman at Memphis. So move him here, get close to him, and coach him. All part of the big picture. Just my take on it.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Jload View Post
                        Courage, this isn’t about courage. It’s about a guy CHEATING. Hardaway broke the rules that everyone else is expected to abide by, and he didn’t do it for the kid, he did it to promote his own self interest. Without rules there is anarchy. Let me tell you if you think college basketball is dirty now trash the NCAA without build a well thought out alternative and watch what happens when the Selfs and Pearls and Millers have no restraints. Seems to me you guys are letting you hatred of NCAAcloud your reason.
                        Perhaps we are. BUT...and my point may be the same as Will, Dwight and Bill have made--but a little different way of putting it--is that the NCAA has basically forfeited it's right to govern by making up it's own rules as it goes along and then applying them so differently to suit their favorites. Your statement that EVERYONE else is expected to abide by these rules is SO inaccurate when the NCAA has proven so beyond the shadow of a doubt that the rules are NOT meant for everyone.

                        The UNC situation was 18 years of absolutely ZERO chance of a single player ever being academically ineligible because the automatic A's in classes that didn't exist were there to boost their GPA. This "governing" body decided there would be NO punishment and invited them into a hotel behind closed doors to come up with a plan of making that look most acceptable. It didn't work. They decided to say that the fact it was OK all the way up to the president/chancellor means nothing could be done. For some reason though the university determined it needed to get rid of the fake department.

                        Anyway--I'd love to see the college athletics have a body that has uniform rules and the willingness and ability to punish offenders. But the current one simply has lost all reason for its members to respect it. They've crossed a line way too many times.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Will Lavender View Post

                          Maybe.

                          But I don't think a kid's college career should be decided on a maybe.

                          As much as the inconsistency there's the issue here that Memphis cleared Wiseman...then they came back and ruled him ineligible.

                          .
                          Think you mean "the NCAA cleared Wiseman" not "Memphis cleared Wiseman"?

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                          • #58
                            I don't feel sorry for Penny Memphis or Wiseman. Sure the NCAA is shady and corrupt but let's be clear, Penny took care of Wiseman prior to and Memphis hired Penny knowing Wiseman would be there. If Cal or Kentucky would have done any of this they would have banned us for 20 years and took away our titles from 40 years ago, we are the only school that has to pay for our mistakes while everyone else gets a free pass, just how i feel about it.....
                            I can spell, blame it on my not so smart smart phone, makes up it's own words as it goes.....

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                            • #59
                              And for those kids who cry about family situation, then just skip college all together. Go overseas or go to the G league for 120k a year, it's that simple....
                              I can spell, blame it on my not so smart smart phone, makes up it's own words as it goes.....

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Los Gatos View Post
                                Think you mean "the NCAA cleared Wiseman" not "Memphis cleared Wiseman"?
                                Yep. Thanks for catching that.

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                                James Wiseman Ruled Ineligible

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