UK vs UGA: Game Thread

[Will Lavender]

I just don't get it.

I don't think anybody else is as ate up with the subject as you are, Ratt. It's all you ever post about up in here. It's like that guy who used to show up and post about Tubby Smith with every post. He basically wouldn't shut up about it unless everybody in a thread agreed that Tubby was a convicted rapist, Nazi, and avowed Satanist. You couldn't get the guy off it. He'd shoehorn Tubby into every conceivable topic. Nobody else in this thread is as ate up with the subject as you are.

I think I've said this (countless) times, but I've always felt about Wheeler he was good last year. Fell off a cliff this year. Two different players. I suspect he did nothing in the offseason--and his body seems to suggest that. I think he's playing heavier and that makes a difference.

But also: two different teams. These teams can't be talked about in the same way because they're way different. This current team calls for a different mix of players, different personnel, different style. Last year at a certain point Kentucky was arguably the best team in the nation. Right around this time I thought Wheeler fit in well on that team. He hasn't come close to fitting in with this team.

However, he's still on the team and this team has an incredibly low margin for error. He can still play a role. He probably needs to play a role simply because Cason Wallace has a proclivity to foul. He's going to get minutes. For Kentucky to be good we probably should root for him and not become a one-man message board Stasi trying to shut down any pro-Wheeler take anybody makes as if it's blasphemous.

[Catsrock]

Maybe Lighthouse can answer this. The play that UG scored under the basket with 1 second left (which Toppin fell asleep on) should that not have been a shot clock violation? Someone on another board said they timed it and from the time it reset until the official blew the whistle was 5 seconds.
Opinions on this??

Not real sure how it works when a mistake like this is made. The clock should not have reset, but it did. In our gym, at that. So I can see that UGA should be given at least a little bit of time because they couldn’t see the clock ticking down near zero. Should they have to recognize the mistake and be counting down in their heads?

In my mind that bucket is on Cal. Like so many inbound plays under their basket the last 13 years.

Probably the most fair/accurate way to fix it would be to blow the whistle as soon as the mistake is recognized. Go to the dreaded monitor. See how much time was left when the original shot missed the rim and the reset took place. Give the ball back to UGA out of bounds with the corrected time rather than counting down how many seconds expired while the clock was wrong. The action taking place in those few seconds could be negated as no points were being scored and the play was based on wrong info.

BUT—I don’t THINK that’s the way they handled it. I, at least, don’t recall the original shot (that missed the rim) being 1 sec from the shot clock buzzer.

[Will Lavender]

Re: Toppin, the best thing he did last night was rebound out of his area. Had several tough rebounds above the rim that changed the tenor of that game.

Had the blown defensive assignment and missed another shot at the front of the rim--he's really bad on push shots for whatever reason. But stayed in the game and fought, and that's all you need if we're getting that Oscar.

The game is so much easier for Toppin when Oscar takes all the pressure away. He just has to stay focused. He's gonna make mistakes playing that many minutes. They all are. Antonio Reeves made several defensively last night but stayed in the game and had a couple key plays in the end.

[Will Lavender]

Toppin also made several very good passes out of the middle of the zone or down on the baseline.

Might be the best passer on the team, which isn't saying a ton on this particular team but still. He has made it very hard to zone Kentucky even though we don't have a bevy of shooters. He also makes it difficult to front Oscar because he's shown great touch in that high/low game.

[Catsrock]

Re: Toppin, the best thing he did last night was rebound out of his area. Had several tough rebounds above the rim that changed the tenor of that game.

Had the blown defensive assignment and missed another shot at the front of the rim--he's really bad on push shots for whatever reason. But stayed in the game and fought, and that's all you need if we're getting that Oscar.

The game is so much easier for Toppin when Oscar takes all the pressure away. He just has to stay focused. He's gonna make mistakes playing that many minutes. They all are. Antonio Reeves made several defensively last night but stayed in the game and had a couple key plays in the end.

That was very big. Huge because there were several of them. But the best single play he has perhaps ever made may have been the block last night when a player made a very nice juke move thinking he was home free to the rim—only to find his shot volleyball spiked by Toppin. I came off the couch. And I like my couch. A lot.

[Will Lavender]

In my mind that bucket is on Cal. Like so many inbound plays under their basket the last 13 years.

I've wondered about this. My best friend grouses about this phenomenon all the time.

When I played you always went zone on under the basket out of bounds plays. Cal, who has a severe allergy to zones, would of course never do that.

But I've considered that the reason for this might be the way we run our out of bounds play. Obviously we just run the "get it inbounds" play. There's nothing to it. But watch how we run it: basically as a post-up to a big man who catches it like an entry pass to the post, with his man sealed off between him and the baseline. On that play the best way to play against it, assuming you knew it was coming, would be to get yourself on the top side and try to jump the pass.

You're taught to do the opposite of that on most every out of bounds play. But I've wondered if we're so used to trying to jump the play in practice our players are weirdly conditioned to be on the wrong side and/or not in guarding position.

[Will Lavender]

Also, ironically, one of the times we've lost on the play was against Georgia and the guy inbounding the ball was Ratt's favorite Sahvir Wheeler.

[Catsrock]

I've wondered about this. My best friend grouses about this phenomenon all the time.

When I played you always went zone on under the basket out of bounds plays. Cal, who has a severe allergy to zones, would of course never do that.

But I've considered that the reason for this might be the way we run our out of bounds play. Obviously we just run the "get it inbounds" play. There's nothing to it. But watch how we run it: basically as a post-up to a big man who catches it like an entry pass to the post, with his man sealed off between him and the baseline. On that play the best way to play against it, assuming you knew it was coming, would be to get yourself on the top side and try to jump the pass.

You're taught to do the opposite of that on most every out of bounds play. But I've wondered if we're so used to trying to jump the play in practice our players are weirdly conditioned to be on the wrong side and/or not in guarding position.

This far into Cal’s tenure here I’m at a loss as to why it happens so frequently. It’s happened to even his best teams. Whether the shot clock/game clock is running short or not—your opponent has the ball out of bounds just a few feet from their own basket. I’ll let others debate whether Cal is intelligent or not. He has been around the game his entire life. There is ONE spot in the building you don’t want them to get the ball to a guy with no one between him and that orange ring-shaped thing. It’s an important spot. Cal needs to learn how to teach defending it. Yes, a zone even for that 2 or 3 seconds could be helpful in ensuring someone is there rather than one simple screen leading to an uncontested layup/dunk.

I really don’t want to be negative because that second half last night blew my mind. But that recurrent play angers me time and time again. It’s just not brain surgery. I do watch some college basketball other than UK. That doesn’t happen everyone like it does us.

[Catsrock]

Also, ironically, one of the times we've lost on the play was against Georgia and the guy inbounding the ball was Ratt's favorite Sahvir Wheeler.

Trips me out that you remember everything! My mind doesn’t work quite like that. But, yes, in close games this play can matter! Can absolutely lose a game for you.

[Jody Porter]

Does anybody know how many points Tshiebwe had last night, and also how many rebounds?

Follow-up question: was this a Division 1 game?

[Jody Porter]

Got into a nice discussion with a good friend who's a former basketball coach about the shot clock thing last night and it turned quite philosophical. My opinion was it should have been a play-on. With 10ish minutes left in the game (plenty of possessions to respond), I don't think the stoppage was the best thing for either team or the fans watching the game. Just for a handful of seconds. Also, I was already saying this in the group message thread before it ended up biting us. Fwiw.

I have a hard time explaining why exactly I feel that way, but no matter what arguments I hear from the "other side", I just don't budge. I'm open to it, though.

[matt colvin]

Does anybody know how many points Tshiebwe had last night, and also how many rebounds?

Follow-up question: was this a Division 1 game?

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[Will Lavender]

Does anybody know how many points Tshiebwe had last night, and also how many rebounds?

Follow-up question: was this a Division 1 game?

Oscar Tshiebwe had 72 points and 90 rebounds in a Division 4 game last night. I read it on John Scotts.

[Will Lavender]

Got into a nice discussion with a good friend who's a former basketball coach about the shot clock thing last night and it turned quite philosophical. My opinion was it should have been a play-on. With 10ish minutes left in the game (plenty of possessions to respond), I don't think the stoppage was the best thing for either team or the fans watching the game. Just for a handful of seconds. Also, I was already saying this in the group message thread before it ended up biting us. Fwiw.

Wait, what? I don't quite understand. The shot clock reset when it shouldn't have. That's a stoppage every time.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here.

[matt colvin]

Oscar Tshiebwe had 72 points and 90 rebounds in a Division 4 game last night. I read it on John Scotts.

I fully expect them to incorporate Huggs' obit into the article section for this game. Give it a few years.

OT: easily the most impressive unofficial sports page / information source / set 'O annals in the world of sports. I love that low tech, 1999, rabbit hole of UK basketball knowledge. I often tell people outside of Kentucky that UK fans are so about the program and the sport that Jon Scott's site has more information listed indirectly about their program than their own university / fan site.

That's not hyperbole, either.